Surfers Poker, Poker Forum
 

Go Back   Surfers Poker - Poker Forum > Poker Forums Area > Poker Strategy and Tips
Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-14-2014, 02:04 PM
balls>brains's Avatar
balls>brains balls>brains is offline
Junior Member
Rank :- KQ suited
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Staker Points: 
TPS: 
Posts: 158
balls>brains Poker Forum Expertballs>brains Poker Forum Expertballs>brains Poker Forum Expertballs>brains Poker Forum Expertballs>brains Poker Forum Expertballs>brains Poker Forum Expertballs>brains Poker Forum Expert
Default AK with 35-40 BBs

This last week I must have lost at least 6 times with AK aipf...each time with around 35-40 big blonds. I am starting to question my approach. Anyone favor a more conservative approach?

Surfers Poker - Featured Sites
  #2  
Old 09-14-2014, 03:27 PM
RiverWheel's Avatar
RiverWheel RiverWheel is offline
Moderator
Surfers Event Winner x28
Elite Supernova Staker
WSOSP Winner x5
SNG Champion
Sharkfin Winner x2
Rank :- Five Aces
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: RJ
Staker Points: 22183.18
TPS: 81.7
Game of choice : No Limit Holdem
Posts: 7,226
RiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker ForumRiverWheel Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Default

You may be overdoing it a bit. I think a maximum of five big blonds at a time should be sufficient.
__________________
ポーカーフエイス

  #3  
Old 09-14-2014, 03:28 PM
Hesaf's Avatar
Hesaf Hesaf is offline
Senior Member
Surfers Event Winner x9
Gold Supernova Staker
Silver Supernova Horse - Verified

SNG Champion x2
Rank :- Royal Flush
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sittard
Staker Points: 8224.99
TPS: 905.305
Plays at : FullTilt
Game of choice : Holdem NoLimit
Fav. Pro : 'KidPoker' Negreanu
Posts: 4,248
Hesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of PokerHesaf Godlike Genius of Poker
Default

Why risking such a big stack with high cards?
2.5 to 3.5 (or 5) BB's should be fine��
__________________
Never, never give up, that's Poker!
Mama used to say, take your time young man!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinthorn View Post
I LOVE YOU hesaf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venice View Post
along came hesaf like an express train
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJustice View Post
I feel such a noob.
PS: Hesaf
FTP: Whozznext

Last edited by Hesaf : 09-14-2014 at 03:30 PM.

  #4  
Old 09-14-2014, 04:10 PM
Willtakem's Avatar
Willtakem Willtakem is offline
Senior Member
Surfers Event Winner x2
Silver Supernova Staker - Verified
Rank :- Five Aces
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hemet Ca.
Staker Points: 2163.77
TPS: 144.03
Plays at : No where, thrown out
Game of choice : nl holdem
Fav. Online Player : Testical McGee
Fav. Pro : Big Poppa
Posts: 7,589
Willtakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Send a message via Yahoo to Willtakem Send a message via Skype™ to Willtakem
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverWheel View Post
You may be overdoing it a bit. I think a maximum of five big blonds at a time should be sufficient.

this is a real man, right here..........

  #5  
Old 09-14-2014, 04:30 PM
char's Avatar
char char is offline
Senior Member
Surfers Event Winner x2
Elite Supernova Horse
Supernova Staker
Sharkfin Winner
WSOSP Winner
Rank :- Five Aces
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Staker Points: 3824.51
TPS: 14136.305
Plays at : pokerstars
Fav. Online Player : frogtrain97
Fav. Pro : tony helmuth
Posts: 10,615
char Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Poker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesaf View Post
Why risking such a big stack with high cards?
2.5 to 3.5 (or 5) BB's should be fine��
are you trolling? hes obv not meaning he open jams 35-40bbs hes talking about 4b jaming and calling 4b's witch vs right ppl both are obv good every desigion is table and player dependent
__________________
KevinThorn said, "ur a foot fetish away from becoming my twin brother" AND AROUND 100,000 AWAY

  #6  
Old 09-14-2014, 08:36 PM
LeafsFan1122's Avatar
LeafsFan1122 LeafsFan1122 is offline
Surfers Event Winner x5
Elite Supernova Staker II
Silver Supernova Horse

WSOSP Winner x3
Rank :- God
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: 2 Table SNGs
Staker Points: 30339.75
TPS: 2710.72
Plays at : Home
Game of choice : Holdem
Fav. Online Player : Prolly VLC
Fav. Pro : Daniel Negreanu
Posts: 21,196
LeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Default

Damn, RiverWheel got there first

OP, could you post some of those AK hands in here? It's possible some/all of them were well played on your part and you just didn't run well. 6 hands is a very small sample, perhaps they could have just as easily worked in your favour. Or perhaps you made some overzealous mistakes (jamming unnecessarily). Were they all AKo or some AKs too?

Around 35bb deep effectively I'm not particularly looking to get it in preflop unless we really know Villain is a fish and willing to stack off with worse. If we're 3betting preflop remember to keep the sizing somewhat small and manageable for future bets. We don't particularly want to be playing AKo OOP all that often, especially against multiple opponents but I guess that's just the way it has to happen some times. I think you should value bet with a high frequency on dry TPTK boards to get value from AT-AQ and broadways that you dominate, but probably slow down on wet drawy boards that connect well with villains ranges. In general, play small ball by not unnecessarily inflating the pot but don't be afraid to look for value when the times are right.
__________________
MCC2005

  #7  
Old 09-15-2014, 12:46 PM
DrJustice's Avatar
DrJustice DrJustice is offline
Moderator
Surfers Event Winner x48
Elite Supernova Staker VII
Elite Supernova Horse III

WSOSP Winner x11
Sharkfin Winner x3
SNG Champion x2
After Dark Winner x4
Survivor Champion

Rank :- God
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Netherlands
Staker Points: 80854.48
TPS: 20526.89
Plays at : Pokerstars
Game of choice : NLHE, 5CD
Fav. Online Player : Frogman3
Fav. Pro : Marcel Luske
Posts: 37,992
DrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker ForumDrJustice Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Send a message via Skype™ to DrJustice
Default

It kinda depends in which stage of the tourney it happens.

I would say it's kinda relevant if there is a history. Not that you can do a lot wrong getting AK in preflop with 35-40 BB's. But there are ways to play AK different and there is merit in playing it different then getting it in preflop.
__________________
PS ID: Dr.Justice
FTP ID: DrJustize

  #8  
Old 10-07-2014, 07:15 PM
Willtakem's Avatar
Willtakem Willtakem is offline
Senior Member
Surfers Event Winner x2
Silver Supernova Staker - Verified
Rank :- Five Aces
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hemet Ca.
Staker Points: 2163.77
TPS: 144.03
Plays at : No where, thrown out
Game of choice : nl holdem
Fav. Online Player : Testical McGee
Fav. Pro : Big Poppa
Posts: 7,589
Willtakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Send a message via Yahoo to Willtakem Send a message via Skype™ to Willtakem
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by balls>brains View Post
This last week I must have lost at least 6 times with AK aipf
Quote:
Originally Posted by balls>brains View Post
...each time with around 35-40 big blonds. I am starting to question my approach. Anyone favor a more conservative approach?
Big slick is just a drawing hand, beaten by 22 all day long. this type of hand should not only be considered as a % play but as a feel play, by that I mean, how are you runnin...? if you are missing flops then play conservative, if you are runnin well and hittin flops then the hand becomes more valuable just because you are runnin well.. missin 6 times, i would say you ain't runninn that well at least with big draw hands, depending on the length of time these misses occured..against a pair you will lose over 50% of the time so 35 to 40 bb is a lot to risk when in the long run (against a pair) it's a losing proposition..

Not so much as how many times it's lost but when..?

  #9  
Old 10-07-2014, 08:15 PM
char's Avatar
char char is offline
Senior Member
Surfers Event Winner x2
Elite Supernova Horse
Supernova Staker
Sharkfin Winner
WSOSP Winner
Rank :- Five Aces
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Staker Points: 3824.51
TPS: 14136.305
Plays at : pokerstars
Fav. Online Player : frogtrain97
Fav. Pro : tony helmuth
Posts: 10,615
char Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Poker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willtakem View Post
[b][size="3"]

Big slick is just a drawing hand, beaten by 22 all day long. this type of hand should not only be considered as a % play but as a feel play, by that I mean, how are you runnin...? if you are missing flops then play conservative, if you are runnin well and hittin flops then the hand becomes more valuable just because you are runnin well.. missin 6 times, i would say you ain't runninn that well at least with big draw hands, depending on the length of time these misses occured..against a pair you will lose over 50% of the time so 35 to 40 bb is a lot to risk when in the long run (against a pair) it's a losing proposition..

Not so much as how many times it's lost but when..?
depends on hud stats rele and how often the are 3bing its not just ak tho we can 4b jam and fold out loads of paIRS I personaly would flat a 3b IP and 4bjam oop depending on hud stats how your running has no baring on the desigion at all as every hand is individual
__________________
KevinThorn said, "ur a foot fetish away from becoming my twin brother" AND AROUND 100,000 AWAY

  #10  
Old 10-07-2014, 08:27 PM
jappie007's Avatar
jappie007 jappie007 is offline
Senior Member
Elite Supernova Staker II
Elite Supernova Horse

Surfers Event Winner x18
Sharkfin Winner x10
WSOSP Winner x2
SNG Champion
Rank :- God
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ermelo (Holland)
Staker Points: 21892.25
TPS: 9305.13
Plays at : pokerstars
Game of choice : strippoker
Fav. Online Player : Bluerain
Fav. Pro : Sal Marquez
Posts: 23,630
jappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forumjappie007 Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Send a message via MSN to jappie007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willtakem View Post
[b][size="3"]

Big slick is just a drawing hand, beaten by 22 all day long. this type of hand should not only be considered as a % play but as a feel play, by that I mean, how are you runnin...? if you are missing flops then play conservative, if you are runnin well and hittin flops then the hand becomes more valuable just because you are runnin well.. missin 6 times, i would say you ain't runninn that well at least with big draw hands, depending on the length of time these misses occured..against a pair you will lose over 50% of the time so 35 to 40 bb is a lot to risk when in the long run (against a pair) it's a losing proposition..

Not so much as how many times it's lost but when..?
this rly. if you're running hot, the odds of flopping a pair with AK become better. it's sorta magic. though if you've been running bad, the chance of flopping good are worse so you play more conservative
__________________
Pokerstars ID: Jappie007
Full tilt ID: Jappie bigmouth (E)
Partypoker ID: JappieBM
William Hill ID: JappieBuz

  #11  
Old 10-07-2014, 11:28 PM
LeafsFan1122's Avatar
LeafsFan1122 LeafsFan1122 is offline
Surfers Event Winner x5
Elite Supernova Staker II
Silver Supernova Horse

WSOSP Winner x3
Rank :- God
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: 2 Table SNGs
Staker Points: 30339.75
TPS: 2710.72
Plays at : Home
Game of choice : Holdem
Fav. Online Player : Prolly VLC
Fav. Pro : Daniel Negreanu
Posts: 21,196
LeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willtakem View Post
how are you runnin...? if you are missing flops then play conservative, if you are runnin well and hittin flops then the hand becomes more valuable just because you are runnin well.. missin 6 times, i would say you ain't runninn that well at least with big draw hands, depending on the length of time these misses occured..
Despite how it may feel when you're at the table, how well or poorly you're running doesn't impact the value of hands. Every hand is mutually exclusive meaning that the hands that came before it will not affect the theoretical outcome of the new hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willtakem View Post
against a pair you will lose over 50% of the time
Yes if you're getting all in preflop every time, pairs will have a sight edge over AK but quite the opposite is true when hands are played out to flops turns and rivers. Small pairs offer poor realizable equity when they don't hit sets meaning that they may be small favourites against AK on boards that miss AK but getting value with low pairs will always be difficult as turns and rivers will often be scare cards. There's going to be fewer spots where you can comfortably value bet low pairs as opposed to broadway hands.
__________________
MCC2005

  #12  
Old 10-08-2014, 07:33 AM
Willtakem's Avatar
Willtakem Willtakem is offline
Senior Member
Surfers Event Winner x2
Silver Supernova Staker - Verified
Rank :- Five Aces
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hemet Ca.
Staker Points: 2163.77
TPS: 144.03
Plays at : No where, thrown out
Game of choice : nl holdem
Fav. Online Player : Testical McGee
Fav. Pro : Big Poppa
Posts: 7,589
Willtakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Send a message via Yahoo to Willtakem Send a message via Skype™ to Willtakem
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsFan1122 View Post
Despite how it may feel when you're at the table, how well or poorly you're running doesn't impact the value of hands. Every hand is mutually exclusive meaning that the hands that came before it will not affect the theoretical outcome of the new hand.



Yes if you're getting all in preflop every time, pairs will have a sight edge over AK but quite the opposite is true when hands are played out to flops turns and rivers. Small pairs offer poor realizable equity when they don't hit sets meaning that they may be small favourites against AK on boards that miss AK but getting value with low pairs will always be difficult as turns and rivers will often be scare cards. There's going to be fewer spots where you can comfortably value bet low pairs as opposed to broadway hands.
I understand all this.. if you want the edge you have to play with feel everyone (should) know the %s and when you have the odds and when you don't...me 1 live table, you mrillion 18 mans going on at once, play will be different...

  #13  
Old 10-08-2014, 06:14 PM
LeafsFan1122's Avatar
LeafsFan1122 LeafsFan1122 is offline
Surfers Event Winner x5
Elite Supernova Staker II
Silver Supernova Horse

WSOSP Winner x3
Rank :- God
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: 2 Table SNGs
Staker Points: 30339.75
TPS: 2710.72
Plays at : Home
Game of choice : Holdem
Fav. Online Player : Prolly VLC
Fav. Pro : Daniel Negreanu
Posts: 21,196
LeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willtakem View Post
I understand all this.. if you want the edge you have to play with feel everyone (should) know the %s and when you have the odds and when you don't...me 1 live table, you mrillion 18 mans going on at once, play will be different...
I agree we'll certainly play differently, there's no doubt about that. In game I'm never basing my decisions off of whether AK held against 55 last orbit, or basing a decision to open TJs on whether it's "hot" or not for example. As far as that sort of thing is concerned I agree I'm not a "feel player" at all, I guess you can call me a "math player?" This day in age I don't think midstakes+ are all that beatable if mass mutitablers are sticking to simple ABC strategies (a gameplan that is straight forward to operate with 20 tables up). Off the tables I study the game in depth and construct all sorts of ranges and tactics to be used in various situations, ensuring that I'm bluffing with with high enough frequencies and not being predictable for players who are playing less tables.

I think you brought up two separate arguments. One is single tabler VS mass multitabler and one is feel player vs math player. Do you think being a feel player is predominantly beneficial in an online setting too, or mostly for live games?
__________________
MCC2005

  #14  
Old 10-09-2014, 01:37 AM
Willtakem's Avatar
Willtakem Willtakem is offline
Senior Member
Surfers Event Winner x2
Silver Supernova Staker - Verified
Rank :- Five Aces
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hemet Ca.
Staker Points: 2163.77
TPS: 144.03
Plays at : No where, thrown out
Game of choice : nl holdem
Fav. Online Player : Testical McGee
Fav. Pro : Big Poppa
Posts: 7,589
Willtakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Send a message via Yahoo to Willtakem Send a message via Skype™ to Willtakem
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsFan1122 View Post
I agree we'll certainly play differently, there's no doubt about that. In game I'm never basing my decisions off of whether AK held against 55 last orbit, or basing a decision to open TJs on whether it's "hot" or not for example. As far as that sort of thing is concerned I agree I'm not a "feel player" at all, I guess you can call me a "math player?" This day in age I don't think midstakes+ are all that beatable if mass mutitablers are sticking to simple ABC strategies (a gameplan that is straight forward to operate with 20 tables up). Off the tables I study the game in depth and construct all sorts of ranges and tactics to be used in various situations, ensuring that I'm bluffing with with high enough frequencies and not being predictable for players who are playing less tables.

I think you brought up two separate arguments. One is single tabler VS mass multitabler and one is feel player vs math player. Do you think being a feel player is predominantly beneficial in an online setting too, or mostly for live games?
when i played online i didnt multi very much either, it was mostly one table at a time, I tried to get a feel well because I am basically a feel player, it's damn hard to feel play on line, prob why I wasn't all that successful at it..

I sincerely believe that if you aren't aware of what part of the cycle your game is in affects your winning %




I don't think you can survive i live tabling using math based decisions and survive for very long, it will show a pattern and as soon as someone picks it up you're done. playing 20 tables your AK will be played the same the majority of the time over and over again. I one table so I see how I am running, ie hitting or missing hands and or draws, that is also part of the cycle, you can't tell me you have never experienced running hot and running cold, all i do is use the little bit of information to base my decisions on, if I am in the down cycle of my poker game where I am missing most if not all of my hands I will be more careful about getting myself into thiose type situations..

If it weren't for people I probably wouldn't play honestly, it's the playing of the people that I enjoy the most, getting them to do what you want them to do when you want them to do it, now that my good friend is poker...

  #15  
Old 10-09-2014, 07:36 AM
LeafsFan1122's Avatar
LeafsFan1122 LeafsFan1122 is offline
Surfers Event Winner x5
Elite Supernova Staker II
Silver Supernova Horse

WSOSP Winner x3
Rank :- God
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: 2 Table SNGs
Staker Points: 30339.75
TPS: 2710.72
Plays at : Home
Game of choice : Holdem
Fav. Online Player : Prolly VLC
Fav. Pro : Daniel Negreanu
Posts: 21,196
LeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker ForumLeafsFan1122 Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Default

Just wanna preface this by saying that I do like hearing about other peoples perspectives and I am quite enjoying the discussion. I'm not trying to change your approach to the game and I know you're not trying to change mine. Not sure how I'm coming across but this is just purely a fun thing to debate and not really a "my way is better than your way" type of thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willtakem View Post
when i played online i didnt multi very much either, it was mostly one table at a time, I tried to get a feel well because I am basically a feel player, it's damn hard to feel play on line, prob why I wasn't all that successful at it..
I can see how it would be hard to replicate the "feel" of live game to an online game. You can't physically see/hear anyone, you're not the same environment, you're essentially anonymous, etc. For me I guess I get my sense of "feel" from my HUD which tells me everything I need to know and I can make my own assessments of the other players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willtakem View Post
I sincerely believe that if you aren't aware of what part of the cycle your game is in affects your winning %
I am definitely aware of when I'm running hot/cold. Right now is a pretty good example as I've started this month down a couple grand at my SNGs, getting hit pretty hard on most of the days so far. But in my opinion it's actually a mistake to start making your decisions based on how you're running. And actually I'm guilty of doing it from time to time (usually laying down a hand that I would otherwise bet or call due to feeling like I'm losing every hand). Funny that what I would classify as a mistake (or tilt) is something that you would probably advocate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Willtakem View Post
I don't think you can survive i live tabling using math based decisions and survive for very long, it will show a pattern and as soon as someone picks it up you're done. playing 20 tables your AK will be played the same the majority of the time over and over again. I one table so I see how I am running, ie hitting or missing hands and or draws, that is also part of the cycle, you can't tell me you have never experienced running hot and running cold, all i do is use the little bit of information to base my decisions on, if I am in the down cycle of my poker game where I am missing most if not all of my hands I will be more careful about getting myself into thiose type situations..
I'm curious what exactly you feel it is that a math player does differently than a feel player. If a player is using math to help him figure out what move to make, in what way would a non-math player exploit him. If I flip the coin so to speak and look at it from the other way around, I would say that for example the math player could evaluate that his opponent is opening tighter than 20% from late position and therefore decrease his 3b% frequency to counteract the other guy's strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willtakem View Post
If it weren't for people I probably wouldn't play honestly, it's the playing of the people that I enjoy the most, getting them to do what you want them to do when you want them to do it, now that my good friend is poker...
I agree with this a lot. I've been playing a lot of live local home games lately, stakes are low ish but it's literally one of the few things I look forward to on a weekly basis. I've met lots of cool people and it's something that I feel will be fun forever. It's not really about the money, it's about the poker and the people. Generally speaking I find live poker a lot more fun than online.
__________________
MCC2005

  #16  
Old 10-09-2014, 04:09 PM
Willtakem's Avatar
Willtakem Willtakem is offline
Senior Member
Surfers Event Winner x2
Silver Supernova Staker - Verified
Rank :- Five Aces
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hemet Ca.
Staker Points: 2163.77
TPS: 144.03
Plays at : No where, thrown out
Game of choice : nl holdem
Fav. Online Player : Testical McGee
Fav. Pro : Big Poppa
Posts: 7,589
Willtakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Send a message via Yahoo to Willtakem Send a message via Skype™ to Willtakem
Default

If you use your hud to give you info, then being aware of how you are running and what cycle your game is in is info also...not using that info is a mistake, imho...Does it mean you lay down every slick or draw hand, no, but it should lead you to a bit more cautious play or on the flip side you can be a bit more adventuresome when you are running well.

It's information, whether you choose to believe it is relevant is up to you. I am a firm believer that any and all information at your disposal should be considered when playing..

I can (as most of us) spot an on-line player fairly quickly, probably due to the fact they are probably the most active player. I play that player differently, and he in turn will look at me and sterotype me as an old fk strickly ABC player, I will use that to my advantage

Let's not forget that there is a certain air of arrogrance when an on-line player sits at the game, I can use that to my advantage also...

Now i have just described a couple things that gives me an advantage over an on-liner, I'm sure the process would be reversed when I went to play on-line, I will be at a disadvantage....

It's just all about info and how you process it...the info you use is up to you...

not comparing play or players as to which is better, they are different and to be able to do both well is an accomplishment...

Last edited by Willtakem : 10-09-2014 at 04:13 PM.

  #17  
Old 10-09-2014, 06:38 PM
char's Avatar
char char is offline
Senior Member
Surfers Event Winner x2
Elite Supernova Horse
Supernova Staker
Sharkfin Winner
WSOSP Winner
Rank :- Five Aces
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Staker Points: 3824.51
TPS: 14136.305
Plays at : pokerstars
Fav. Online Player : frogtrain97
Fav. Pro : tony helmuth
Posts: 10,615
char Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Poker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willtakem View Post
If you use your hud to give you info, then being aware of how you are running and what cycle your game is in is info also...not using that info is a mistake, imho...Does it mean you lay down every slick or draw hand, no, but it should lead you to a bit more cautious play or on the flip side you can be a bit more adventuresome when you are running well.

It's information, whether you choose to believe it is relevant is up to you. I am a firm believer that any and all information at your disposal should be considered when playing..

I can (as most of us) spot an on-line player fairly quickly, probably due to the fact they are probably the most active player. I play that player differently, and he in turn will look at me and sterotype me as an old fk strickly ABC player, I will use that to my advantage

Let's not forget that there is a certain air of arrogrance when an on-line player sits at the game, I can use that to my advantage also...

Now i have just described a couple things that gives me an advantage over an on-liner, I'm sure the process would be reversed when I went to play on-line, I will be at a disadvantage....

It's just all about info and how you process it...the info you use is up to you...

not comparing play or players as to which is better, they are different and to be able to do both well is an accomplishment...
lol just becasue an online player plays live and is really active witch is the corrert way to play agesnt tighter players does'nt mean every online player is gonna be less of a live player than you and also spot flawers in ur game also i mean playing agressive is never bad if im honest esp live .
And take me for instants im very good with ppl interacting with them i talk to people try to find out ifs they have any flaws i casn use while also having fun with them laughing telling joke but make no mistakes everything i do at the table is for my self interest how ever much ppl find it good fun just saying will allway 2 sides
__________________
KevinThorn said, "ur a foot fetish away from becoming my twin brother" AND AROUND 100,000 AWAY

  #18  
Old 10-10-2014, 04:09 PM
Willtakem's Avatar
Willtakem Willtakem is offline
Senior Member
Surfers Event Winner x2
Silver Supernova Staker - Verified
Rank :- Five Aces
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hemet Ca.
Staker Points: 2163.77
TPS: 144.03
Plays at : No where, thrown out
Game of choice : nl holdem
Fav. Online Player : Testical McGee
Fav. Pro : Big Poppa
Posts: 7,589
Willtakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Send a message via Yahoo to Willtakem Send a message via Skype™ to Willtakem
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by char View Post
lol just becasue an online player plays live and is really active witch is the corrert way to play agesnt tighter players does'nt mean every online player is gonna be less of a live player than you and also spot flawers in ur game also i mean playing agressive is never bad if im honest esp live .
And take me for instants im very good with ppl interacting with them i talk to people try to find out ifs they have any flaws i casn use while also having fun with them laughing telling joke but make no mistakes everything i do at the table is for my self interest how ever much ppl find it good fun just saying will allway 2 sides
you did read the last line in my post....?
you have to play according to the flow of the game, so, yes, sometimes playing aggressive isn't the correct move..
I do not wish to start a war but if you are truthful with yourself, how many times have I gotten you to do what I wanted you to do...? poker is the same thing, just different setting...
have you ever made a play early on in a tourney for no other reason than you might meet a couple of your current opponents later on and you can use it against them.....?
don't get mad at this but it is true... I can bait you, you cannot bait me, that my friend is a distinct advantage and it comes from experience....

let me give you an actual example of what I am talking about..
I am in the small blind with no change, the player to my left is the big blind and it just so happens has plenty of change. without saying a word he reaches over and makes change for my blind sliding the change off to me.

me- please don't touch my cheques.
him- I was just trrying to help
me- I don't like other people touching my cheques
him- trying to help the dealer and speed up the game
me- it's his job to make change, not yours and I would appreciate it if you didn't handle my cheques.
him- whatever dude...

now it doesn't seem like much, other than me being an asshole but I now have him and 2-3 others who heard the exchange thinking about me instead of winning..If I have you wanting to bust me more than winning the tourney who has the advantage, if I get under your skin, who has the advantage and once in awhile it'll blow up in your face so be ready for that..now if I happen to meet up with any of these players deeper in, when they see me they will remember and hopefully will try and bust me rather than focusing on the end..

It's not always negative, it's just what options and situations are available for you to gather information or set someone up for the future

you can be super nice also, like Daniel N., he is great at the table because he learned to ask the right questions to get the info he needs to give him the edge...

this whole thing is about gathering and using information, now if you don't believe in your poker cycle this information is pretty much useless to you if you do (which most don't) then it's helpful...

I'm not advocating folding every thing when you're running bad just take a few seconds before callin off 35 bigs when you couldn't catch ebolla in a west african whore house..

the cards are math based but the game isn't...

  #19  
Old 10-10-2014, 04:42 PM
char's Avatar
char char is offline
Senior Member
Surfers Event Winner x2
Elite Supernova Horse
Supernova Staker
Sharkfin Winner
WSOSP Winner
Rank :- Five Aces
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Staker Points: 3824.51
TPS: 14136.305
Plays at : pokerstars
Fav. Online Player : frogtrain97
Fav. Pro : tony helmuth
Posts: 10,615
char Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Poker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willtakem View Post
you did read the last line in my post....?
you have to play according to the flow of the game, so, yes, sometimes playing aggressive isn't the correct move..
I do not wish to start a war but if you are truthful with yourself, how many times have I gotten you to do what I wanted you to do...? poker is the same thing, just different setting...
have you ever made a play early on in a tourney for no other reason than you might meet a couple of your current opponents later on and you can use it against them.....?
don't get mad at this but it is true... I can bait you, you cannot bait me, that my friend is a distinct advantage and it comes from experience....

let me give you an actual example of what I am talking about..
I am in the small blind with no change, the player to my left is the big blind and it just so happens has plenty of change. without saying a word he reaches over and makes change for my blind sliding the change off to me.

me- please don't touch my cheques.
him- I was just trrying to help
me- I don't like other people touching my cheques
him- trying to help the dealer and speed up the game
me- it's his job to make change, not yours and I would appreciate it if you didn't handle my cheques.
him- whatever dude...

now it doesn't seem like much, other than me being an asshole but I now have him and 2-3 others who heard the exchange thinking about me instead of winning..If I have you wanting to bust me more than winning the tourney who has the advantage, if I get under your skin, who has the advantage and once in awhile it'll blow up in your face so be ready for that..now if I happen to meet up with any of these players deeper in, when they see me they will remember and hopefully will try and bust me rather than focusing on the end..

It's not always negative, it's just what options and situations are available for you to gather information or set someone up for the future

you can be super nice also, like Daniel N., he is great at the table because he learned to ask the right questions to get the info he needs to give him the edge...

this whole thing is about gathering and using information, now if you don't believe in your poker cycle this information is pretty much useless to you if you do (which most don't) then it's helpful...

I'm not advocating folding every thing when you're running bad just take a few seconds before callin off 35 bigs when you couldn't catch ebolla in a west african whore house..

the cards are math based but the game isn't...
ok a few points hear

yeh in a non poker sence and on a computer were i cant allways say whats in my head becasue im not caperble of typing whats in my head then yeh uve defo got me to do what you want aka raging ( but its was only only 40% you 60% was me) ill explain why 60% is me becasue i can't get my point across very well online witch in turn made me angry at myself witxch i then vented at you and others at times but that is fine w/e i dont care to much anymore.

im uber smart in real life and i would'nt let emmotions rule my poker i have the metal stengh to laugh at the player who does this

me- please don't touch my cheques.
him- I was just trrying to help
me- I don't like other people touching my cheques
him- trying to help the dealer and speed up the game
me- it's his job to make change, not yours and I would appreciate it if you didn't handle my cheques.
him- whatever dude...

and just forget about it

and also will im also good at getting pepople to do what i want them to around a live table and ive played live quite alot id say im no noob to live poker and im like accerly better at live poker becasue i interact with people rele well and can read people and only 1 tabling its easyer to collect betting tell timing tells visionary tells and also like people dont really play well agesnt someone as agro as me live
__________________
KevinThorn said, "ur a foot fetish away from becoming my twin brother" AND AROUND 100,000 AWAY

Last edited by char : 10-10-2014 at 04:44 PM.

  #20  
Old 10-10-2014, 04:46 PM
char's Avatar
char char is offline
Senior Member
Surfers Event Winner x2
Elite Supernova Horse
Supernova Staker
Sharkfin Winner
WSOSP Winner
Rank :- Five Aces
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Staker Points: 3824.51
TPS: 14136.305
Plays at : pokerstars
Fav. Online Player : frogtrain97
Fav. Pro : tony helmuth
Posts: 10,615
char Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Pokerchar Godlike Genius of Poker
Default

just to add also

it often is good to targit the players you consider as the weakest players at the table if theres a guy whos more agro than me im less likely to play pots vs them regualy
__________________
KevinThorn said, "ur a foot fetish away from becoming my twin brother" AND AROUND 100,000 AWAY

  #21  
Old 10-10-2014, 09:52 PM
Willtakem's Avatar
Willtakem Willtakem is offline
Senior Member
Surfers Event Winner x2
Silver Supernova Staker - Verified
Rank :- Five Aces
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hemet Ca.
Staker Points: 2163.77
TPS: 144.03
Plays at : No where, thrown out
Game of choice : nl holdem
Fav. Online Player : Testical McGee
Fav. Pro : Big Poppa
Posts: 7,589
Willtakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker ForumWilltakem Grandmaster of the Poker Forum
Send a message via Yahoo to Willtakem Send a message via Skype™ to Willtakem
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by char View Post
ok a few points hear

yeh in a non poker sence and on a computer were i cant allways say whats in my head becasue im not caperble of typing whats in my head then yeh uve defo got me to do what you want aka raging ( but its was only only 40% you 60% was me) ill explain why 60% is me becasue i can't get my point across very well online witch in turn made me angry at myself witxch i then vented at you and others at times but that is fine w/e i dont care to much anymore.

im uber smart in real life and i would'nt let emmotions rule my poker i have the metal stengh to laugh at the player who does this

me- please don't touch my cheques.
him- I was just trrying to help
me- I don't like other people touching my cheques
him- trying to help the dealer and speed up the game
me- it's his job to make change, not yours and I would appreciate it if you didn't handle my cheques.
him- whatever dude...

and just forget about it

and also will im also good at getting pepople to do what i want them to around a live table and ive played live quite alot id say im no noob to live poker and im like accerly better at live poker becasue i interact with people rele well and can read people and only 1 tabling its easyer to collect betting tell timing tells visionary tells and also like people dont really play well agesnt someone as agro as me live
its not about all that and I wasn't targeting you it's just it proved my point....I have no idea how you act in a poker setting. this is about info and how you can go about getting it, does everything work on everybody..? no, of course not..
its just about getting info, if i tried some bs gamemanship on you and it doesn't work, oh well, I just look for opportunities, they don't always work.
some people confuse sportsmanship to gamesmanship they are completely different

I hate to admit it but I think i would have made a great con-man. I could do the cons all day, that's fun but the taking of innocent peoples money would prevent me from sleeping at night.

Last edited by Willtakem : 10-10-2014 at 09:55 PM.

 


Poker Forum | Poker Staking

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Poker Site Reviews
Titan Poker Pokerstars William Hill Bodog Carbon Poker Ladbrokes Party PokerCake Poker