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  #1  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:41 AM
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Default Whats the correct play here

Pokerstars Zoom Hand #102327809975: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2013/08/04 22:37:27 ET
Table 'Donati' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: churbr0 ($4.95 in chips)
Seat 2: boksiukas ($8.57 in chips)
Seat 3: InDaState ($2.50 in chips)
Seat 4: RoBtheLucky ($5 in chips)
Seat 5: johnnyb07070 ($8.42 in chips)
Seat 6: Šudeerall ($5.70 in chips)
boksiukas: posts small blind $0.02
InDaState: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Šudeerall [3s 3c]
RoBtheLucky: raises $0.10 to $0.15
johnnyb07070: folds
Šudeerall: calls $0.15
churbr0: folds
boksiukas: raises $0.45 to $0.60
InDaState: folds
RoBtheLucky: calls $0.45
Šudeerall: calls $0.45
*** FLOP *** [3h Jc 5h]
boksiukas: checks
RoBtheLucky: checks
Šudeerall: bets $0.45
boksiukas: folds
RoBtheLucky: calls $0.45
*** TURN *** [3h Jc 5h] [Td]
RoBtheLucky: checks
Šudeerall: bets $1.05
RoBtheLucky: calls $1.05
*** RIVER *** [3h Jc 5h Td] [7h]
RoBtheLucky: bets $2.90 and is all-in
Šudeerall: ???????
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:40 AM
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sighcall I suppose

Calling the 3bet pre seems a bit loose

On the flop the pot is $1.85 and you have $5.10 left

You can easily get your chips in on 2 streets so I think it's better to bet $1.10+ on flop and then shove turn for $4 since pot will be $4.05 if flop bet gets called

Or check flop and give someone a chance to bet turn and if they don't then bet $1.10+ looking to shove river

You've got to be careful putting a large % of your stack in whilst giving someone good odds to draw . You're better off either putting less in before the river so you can actually decide to fold if the draws hit or put more in before the river so there's no chance of you ever folding and his implied odds are a lot worse

  #3  
Old 08-05-2013, 12:21 PM
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Preflop play is marginal.

The flop is pretty dry, despite there being out a Flush draw.
What you want to achieve is to determine when you want to get your stack in.
Either set up a betting line to get it in on turn or river.
I could see myself betting 70c-90c on flop with the intention of getting it on the river. Or bet $1.10-$1.30 with the intention of getting it in on the turn.

The 7h completes the 46 OESD and the FD. But i don't see myself folding, because our line shows weakness, so i would consider that villain thinks that too.
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2013, 04:14 PM
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I'm aware of the poor pre-flop calling there, was finding myself to be too passive so i decided to open my range in multi way pots with pocket pairs. My intention with the flop bet is to keep hands like AJ in the hand, as I'm not too worried about the flush draw. I was concerned that a bet too high would scream AA KK or QQ. Also, if he happens to reraise me on the flop, then generally he'll have a high pocket pair (or maybe a higher set ).
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudeeral View Post
Pokerstars Zoom Hand #102327809975: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2013/08/04 22:37:27 ET
Table 'Donati' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: churbr0 ($4.95 in chips)
Seat 2: boksiukas ($8.57 in chips)
Seat 3: InDaState ($2.50 in chips)
Seat 4: RoBtheLucky ($5 in chips)
Seat 5: johnnyb07070 ($8.42 in chips)
Seat 6: Šudeerall ($5.70 in chips)
boksiukas: posts small blind $0.02
InDaState: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Šudeerall [3s 3c]
RoBtheLucky: raises $0.10 to $0.15
johnnyb07070: folds
Šudeerall: calls $0.15
churbr0: folds
boksiukas: raises $0.45 to $0.60
InDaState: folds
RoBtheLucky: calls $0.45
Šudeerall: calls $0.45
*** FLOP *** [3h Jc 5h]
boksiukas: checks
RoBtheLucky: checks
Šudeerall: bets $0.45
boksiukas: folds
RoBtheLucky: calls $0.45
*** TURN *** [3h Jc 5h] [Td]
RoBtheLucky: checks
Šudeerall: bets $1.05
RoBtheLucky: calls $1.05
*** RIVER *** [3h Jc 5h Td] [7h]
RoBtheLucky: bets $2.90 and is all-in
Šudeerall: ???????
absolutely clueless....

  #6  
Old 08-05-2013, 05:21 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dudeeral View Post
I'm aware of the poor pre-flop calling there, was finding myself to be too passive so i decided to open my range in multi way pots with pocket pairs. My intention with the flop bet is to keep hands like AJ in the hand, as I'm not too worried about the flush draw. I was concerned that a bet too high would scream AA KK or QQ. Also, if he happens to reraise me on the flop, then generally he'll have a high pocket pair (or maybe a higher set ).
This doesn't make sense rly . Firstly there's not much chance you have QQ-AA given the preflop action. Secondly there's no way the average 5nl player is going to snapfold Jx here just because you bet a std amount of between 50 and 100% of pot . Thirdly , if he raises you on the flop you fistpump get it in and be happy about it so that's hardly a worry

The biggest leak in most lowstakes players games is that they call too much with draws and weak hands so by betting tiny you're letting them off the hook

If you take the line of keeping players in by betting small when you flop big hands then overall you'll miss a lot of value and get outdrawn more often

  #7  
Old 08-05-2013, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogman3 View Post
This doesn't make sense rly . Firstly there's not much chance you have QQ-AA given the preflop action. Secondly there's no way the average 5nl player is going to snapfold Jx here just because you bet a std amount of between 50 and 100% of pot . Thirdly , if he raises you on the flop you fistpump get it in and be happy about it so that's hardly a worry

The biggest leak in most lowstakes players games is that they call too much with draws and weak hands so by betting tiny you're letting them off the hook

If you take the line of keeping players in by betting small when you flop big hands then overall you'll miss a lot of value and get outdrawn more often
Alright, thanks for the info, it all helps. Just getting back into poker and I'm making a lot of bad plays. This river shove puts me in an odd spot, I'm not sure that he chased past flop with something like 98 or 64 unless they are hearts. My weak flop bet opens up the possibility for a flush draw to play. If he happens to be trying to bluff me off on the river, the shove is probably the play for him to make. So in my head its either AA, KK, QQ / Flush / Jx / a higher set / or bluff to rep a flush. The way he played the pot suggests that it isn't AA KK or QQ. The way i played the pot makes a flush very possible. I could see someone playing how he did with Jx and maybe spiked 2 pair (it is 0.02 / 0.05 after all). A higher set at this level would have gotten all in on the flop or whenever they happened to hit it (doubt hes playing 77 that deep, but its not impossible). So basically i made a lot of mistakes in this hand that allows someone to chase and or bluff me on the river.

I appreciate all the info everyone, Thanks.
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudeeral View Post
Alright, thanks for the info, it all helps. Just getting back into poker and I'm making a lot of bad plays. This river shove puts me in an odd spot, I'm not sure that he chased past flop with something like 98 or 64 unless they are hearts. My weak flop bet opens up the possibility for a flush draw to play. If he happens to be trying to bluff me off on the river, the shove is probably the play for him to make. So in my head its either AA, KK, QQ / Flush / Jx / a higher set / or bluff to rep a flush. The way he played the pot suggests that it isn't AA KK or QQ. The way i played the pot makes a flush very possible. I could see someone playing how he did with Jx and maybe spiked 2 pair (it is 0.02 / 0.05 after all). A higher set at this level would have gotten all in on the flop or whenever they happened to hit it (doubt hes playing 77 that deep, but its not impossible). So basically i made a lot of mistakes in this hand that allows someone to chase and or bluff me on the river.

I appreciate all the info everyone, Thanks.
you mentioned every play except the squeeze.....

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Old 08-05-2013, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willtakem View Post
you mentioned every play except the squeeze.....
Alright, so if the preflop reraiser is off the hand on the flop to a weak bet then i can assume that he had something decent but not amazing. The villain calling ahead of me would suggest that he has a marginal hand as well, or he is slow playing a monster. He check calls me on the flop because i made it too cheap for him to fold his hand. Now should i be assuming two over cards with a possible heart draw? He calls the turn bet (which again is somewhat weak based on the pot, correct?), possibly picking up a straight draw if he has two over cards. Most players at this level would have re-raised a monster at this point correct? The river is the one that is difficult for me to put together. But based on the presumed weak bets I'm making on the flop and turn, he may be trying to bluff me off of a hand like AK i suppose?
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudeeral View Post
Alright, so if the preflop reraiser is off the hand on the flop to a weak bet then i can assume that he had something decent but not amazing. The villain calling ahead of me would suggest that he has a marginal hand as well, or he is slow playing a monster. He check calls me on the flop because i made it too cheap for him to fold his hand. Now should i be assuming two over cards with a possible heart draw? He calls the turn bet (which again is somewhat weak based on the pot, correct?), possibly picking up a straight draw if he has two over cards. Most players at this level would have re-raised a monster at this point correct? The river is the one that is difficult for me to put together. But based on the presumed weak bets I'm making on the flop and turn, he may be trying to bluff me off of a hand like AK i suppose?
I wasn't really saying anything except that really. but now it's out there, if you could have put him on the squeeze and repopped it, who knows..?. was really just sain that ALL options need to be considered.

  #11  
Old 08-06-2013, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudeeral View Post
Alright, so if the preflop reraiser is off the hand on the flop to a weak bet then i can assume that he had something decent but not amazing. The villain calling ahead of me would suggest that he has a marginal hand as well, or he is slow playing a monster. He check calls me on the flop because i made it too cheap for him to fold his hand. Now should i be assuming two over cards with a possible heart draw? He calls the turn bet (which again is somewhat weak based on the pot, correct?), possibly picking up a straight draw if he has two over cards. Most players at this level would have re-raised a monster at this point correct? The river is the one that is difficult for me to put together. But based on the presumed weak bets I'm making on the flop and turn, he may be trying to bluff me off of a hand like AK i suppose?
It's 5nl so you can't range players too accurately but he raised pre from utg so his range is prob 44+,ATo+,A5s+ , suited broadways and KQo maybe KJo
The guy who 3bet pre prob had AQ or AK since he check/folded the flop.
Against your small flop bet the original raiser will call with any pair and any 2 overcards plus any flushdraw so that doesn't tell us a lot . After he calls the turn we can prob discount pairs less than 99 from his range so he's left with JJ , TT , JT , JQ , KQ , AJ , AQ and flushdraws .
Then he shoves river for $2.90 which makes the pot $7.75 in total
This means that to call you need to have the best hand 27% of the time
It's not about if you think you have the best hand , it's whether you have the best hand enough of the time.
If we trust him to be a decent player who plays std ranges then there's not a lot you beat on the river that he shoves for value so it's prob a fold unless you know he bluffs frequently
However as I said before it's 5nl and you can't assume he's playing a solid range of hands or playing well postflop , so seeing as we only need to have the best hand 27% of the time I would call

But overall it's better to plan your betsizing better to try to avoid situations like this . Generally it's better to bet big with big hands and let opponents make more costly mistakes . If he's going to call you down with a flushdraw or JT then make him pay

Last edited by Frogman3 : 08-06-2013 at 02:12 PM.

 


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