2-7 Lowball

[smokinat420]

since ouchbadbeat has talked so much about it i have been playing a lot lately and ive got to tell ya there is some fish in this pond! I do have a few questions since there is not a lot of material on the game. How powerful do u have to be to call a raise? 863 good enough? i find when i have an 8 or 6 in my hand its very hard to make a good hand. Dont leave home without a 2&7 in your hand??(guy told me this 3 days ago said these were "KEY" cards.) When is correct to pat a hand??should u ever pat a 9 low? This is game full of heart ache nothing is worse than starting with 7243 and all u need is a 5 or 6 or even an 8 in three draws and whiff....Also if anyone has anything extra that they may have noticed that is crutial please help...

[ouchbadbeat]

perhaps post some example hands


with a hand like 863 i'd generally leave it alone, it's an OK hand for drawing to a trashy 86 but if someone's raised and you're not in the blinds, you should probably just fold and not get involved

generally you should be drawing to an 86 at the worst, if your starting hand is 873xx just muck it, that's not a 3 card starting hand it's a 2 card starting hand in my opinion (as in you'd probably have to muck the 7 and draw to a better 8)

strong starting hands contain a deuce (vital), and then a 7 or an 8 and a card in between lower than a 6
2x7 or 2x8 where x is 3 4 or 5
267 and 268 are also OK and i would still play them, especially 267

other 3 card hands i will play quite happily are 234 235 245 and perhaps 236/246 (though these are much weaker)

6 is indeed a bad card in 2-7, even more so if you don't have a 2
if your hand is 367 for example, just muck it. you need to hit a miracle 2 if you want to have a good draw. 3467 and 3567 are both weak due to the straight draws, and if you hit the 8 you only have a trash 8

if you don't have a deuce you can still play certain hands i've found - hands where there is a big gap and no straight possibility. this usually means an 8 and a 3 with another baby, 4 or 5
348 358 can both be played as you have 2s as outs as well as 4/5/6
just be very cautious if you find yourself drawing to 87 or worse. 86 is a pretty strong hand but as soon as you go into 87 and worse, your hand is much more likely to lose at showdown


you say when should you pat a 9? basically it's situational - if on 2nd draw the opponent discards 2, you should pat your made 9 and then try to bet him out of the pot. if he calls, and changes any on 3rd you again should pat your 9 (and CHECK it down) i really dislike the way some people will play it fine up until 3rd street, only to overplay a weak hand like a 9 by betting, when they should only be getting action if they're beat. if you pat your 9 and the opponent bets, you should probably call (especially if the pot is big) - but also this should be where your knowledge of the player counts. if you've never seen them bluff and know they only bet with huge hands, you can probably muck your 9 as you are very likely to be beat
if the player is very loose and will bet any hand that looks remotely low, so perhaps another worse 9, you should call
if the player bluffs, you should definitely call - when i play, i will make a note if i see someone change 1 on 3rd and bluff with a pair/high card. i will then nearly always pay them off in similar situations - sure you might lose ONE bet if they've made their hand (remember, check call is the way to go), but if they're bluffing and you know they will bluff at times, you win one bet and the whole pot

[smokinat420]

wow ouch your the man i tell ya!!! this is all wonderfull. I am really getting to like this game a lot. I might dig through some hand history's for some examples to see if you can help but ive actually been doing very well to my suprise on the live cash tables. here are my stats for today in .50/1.00

During current Triple Draw 2-7 session you were dealt 110 hands
Pots won if drawing - 14 of 67 (20%)
Pots won at showdown - 14 of 31 (45%)
Pots won without showdown - 24

im up about $21 right now should be more but u know the game

[ouchbadbeat]

i'm not sure how cash games would differ to tournaments in terms of how you'd play, or even if they'd differ at all

generally i stick to tournaments which is 6 players per table throughout most of it except near the end

youd probably have to loosen up your hand selection slightly on a cash game with fewer players, though i'm not really sure by how much

[xxPOGOxx]

Originally Posted by ouchbadbeat

generally you should be drawing to an 86 at the worst, if your starting hand is 873xx just muck it, that's not a 3 card starting hand it's a 2 card starting hand in my opinion (as in you'd probably have to muck the 7 and draw to a better 8)

You know...I'm not much of a Deuce-Seven player...but I'm pretty sure I'd be mucking he 8 to draw to a better 7, and not the other way around. 76542 is better than 85432...

[ouchbadbeat]

Originally Posted by xxPOGOxx

You know...I'm not much of a Deuce-Seven player...but I'm pretty sure I'd be mucking he 8 to draw to a better 7, and not the other way around. 76542 is better than 85432...

the thing with a 7 without a deuce is you need that deuce or else your hand is trash
with 83 you don't necessarily need to hit a deuce to have a decent draw
73 draw 3 and hit K45 for example, 7543 is bad and you'd probably have to fold it to a raise since you're now drawing so thin
same draw with 83 gives you 8543 which is actually better because you have twice as many outs to give you a strong hand
i like to think of it as a sort of "sandwich", with the bread being the highest and lowest cards 83 has enough room for a whole bunch of low cards to fit in between even if you don't hit the 2, while 73 does not

i don't know for sure that playing 83 is correct over playing 73 so i'd be interested to find out which is the right move, but if i was on the big blind and it was free to play i would still probably go for 83 just because your hand is not relying on you to hit a 2 to keep going

[wsthesis]

I would recommend referring to Daniel Negraneau's section on 2-7 Triple Draw in Super System 2.

The big point is that you really should have a deuce in your hand to start. You should consider drawing from the bottom up (2 should be the big emphasis).

The 86 low is not really all that good; I'd only really play it in position against a standard field of players (or in the BB in an unraised pot).

Could you provide details on your position when this situation occurs?

[!HCI]

i often play 2 7 because i think nobody would get the idea i play this hand and so my winning chances arent so bad as you think. if someone makes a raise or a reraise you dont get the idea he could have 2-7

[Hesaf]

I agree with HCI but I prefer to play them suited to have a little more chance.
Depending on the stake I play them off-suite.

Just to

[Spungo]

Originally Posted by !HCI

i often play 2 7 because i think nobody would get the idea i play this hand and so my winning chances arent so bad as you think. if someone makes a raise or a reraise you dont get the idea he could have 2-7

This thread is discussing the 7-2 triple draw. Not the starting hand 7-2.
Next time it might be wise to read the thread a lit bit better

[woogster]

Yes I would agree with Spungo, for some reason newbies tend not to read the thread very carefully. Next time take your time reading the thread before posting a reply.